First of all: be polite!

debian-devel sucks!

Let's just ignore the attitude. Let's ignore the random bashing, too. Heck, let's even ignore the pathetic pissing contests. But this:

From: Daniel Kobras <kobras@tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de>
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 19:52:04 +0200
Subject: Re: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot error
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

On Sun, Aug 11, 2002 at 01:29:19PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
It is a confusing (confused) error message. The permission problem is with the script, not the interpreter.
Huh?
    % chmod a-x debian/rules
    % dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc
    dpkg-buildpackage: source package is noflushd
    dpkg-buildpackage: source version is 2.6.3-1
    dpkg-buildpackage: source maintainer is Daniel Kobras 
    dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture is i386
    fakeroot debian/rules clean
    sh: line 1: debian/rules: Permission denied
    % chmod a+x debian/rules
    % sudo chmod a-x /usr/bin/make
    % dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc
    dpkg-buildpackage: source package is noflushd
    dpkg-buildpackage: source version is 2.6.3-1
    dpkg-buildpackage: source maintainer is Daniel Kobras 
    dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture is i386
    fakeroot debian/rules clean
    sh: debian/rules: /usr/bin/make: bad interpreter: Permission denied
    
[...]

Perfectly valid post. Matt asserts that the problem lies somewhere else and that the error is just misleading. Daniel just shows he's right by reproducing the conditions which lead up to the error. And a follow-up to this message:

Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 21:13:28 +0200
From: Jonas Meurer <jonas@freesources.org>
Subject: Re: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot error
To: debian-devel@lists.debian.org

On 11/08/2002 Daniel Kobras wrote:
> % chmod a+x debian/rules
> % sudo chmod a-x /usr/bin/make

First line right, second is moronic. /usr/bin/make is a binary, it must
be executable.

bye
 mejo

WTH? You did go to elementary school, right? That place where they teach you elementary reading skills... does that ring a bell?

This used to be a nice mailing list, one of those where you could actually make questions and get good answers. You could even learn something. But over the years it has turned into something, oh, not so nice. The quoted mail is just a random sample. I don't mean to imply that every single mail is like this. There are good and capable people posting on that list (Richard Braakman comes to mind), but they are shaded by the hordes of attitude loaded posts, the knee-jerk reactions and the plain mororic replies. Don't beleive me? Go read the archives, go back to 1997 or 1996. Then pick anything not older than a year or so. See the difference?

I know the problem is not endemic to debian-devel, S/N has dropped all over the net. There's way too much people telling others why they are wrong instead of trying to figure out if they are right. It'd be ok if people would tell others that they are wrong when they are actually wrong, but interestingly that's exactly the one thing that doesn't happen. If people are actually wrong, everybody else keeps quiet. debian-devel is the same, the population is just a bit different. In this group they still tell you that you are wrong when you are. And also when you aren't. And they don't bother telling you why. It goes to the extreme: you have to tell other people why you are right. Mere facts don't suffice. You have to give them pre digested baby food. I don't know about you, but I think that sucks...

Da other rants

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